Is there any sort of notification to users when a channel updates to a new version? It seems like some way to indicate a channel has been updated and what’s new would be useful for users and developers.
At this point I guess we could include a new channel image with a graphic stating it was updated, and then update again later to remove that graphic, but that’s a lot of busy work on our part setting it up and on Roku’s part reviewing the channels.
While some sort of change log would be nice, minimally just some indication on the main channel screen that a channel was recently updated would be sufficient. E.g. If submission date within 7 days of current date, show visual indication it was updated, etc.
For my channels, I save the current version to the registry. That way, the first time an update is launched, I can compare the stored version with the current version and present the user with a dialog indicating what has been updated if they don’t match.
“TheEndless” wrote:
For my channels, I save the current version to the registry. That way, the first time an update is launched, I can compare the stored version with the current version and present the user with a dialog indicating what has been updated if they don’t match.
Yeah, I understand that’s possible, but I’m really referring to the home screen, before they’ve decided to look into the channel. It’s less of an issue for a media channel where the content is constantly updating, as the user is already conditioned to the fact that the content will be changing often and look occasionally.
Our situation may be a good example: We are updating Reversi! to have a new feature (definable board size) and a harder max difficulty level. Without a way to indicate there are new features, someone who decided they were bored with the current difficulty/features may take quite a while to check back in on it. I would rather customers feel they got a good deal for their money, and that the game/channel is actively being worked on.
Gotcha. You know, they use to push channels that had been updated to the front of the list, but that seemed to go away with the new channel store. I wonder if they could add a “Recently Updated” category to complement the “New” category.
“TheEndless” wrote:
Gotcha. You know, they use to push channels that had been updated to the front of the list, but that seemed to go away with the new channel store. I wonder if they could add a “Recently Updated” category to complement the “New” category.
Yeah, I think the old channel store actually had a sorting category for most recently updated, but I can’t recall. This would address some of the issues at a minimal level, and theoretically not be very hard for Roku to implement. Good suggestion!
Yeah, it would really be nice if underneath the “New” section, there was a “recently updated” section. This could be kept from being too chatty by only listing channels that had significant changes, of course that would be up to the folks at Roku to decide. Right now, if you have a major upgrade, nobody will know about it except people who already have it installed.
“jbrave” wrote:
Yeah, it would really be nice if underneath the “New” section, there was a “recently updated” section. This could be kept from being too chatty by only listing channels that had significant changes, of course that would be up to the folks at Roku to decide. Right now, if you have a major upgrade, nobody will know about it except people who already have it installed.
Well, it starts getting into the realm of not being as easy to implement anymore, but a box on channel submission for entering the list of (publicly viewable) changes could then be used to trigger whether it shows up in the recently updated section. Leave the change log box empty, no recently update listing. Enter something in it, show it in recently updated, preferably along with the list of changes. Although at that point it will probably take a while to get implemented, and they might as well just take their time and do it right then.
Right now I would be happy with a recently updated section in the channel store that just lists the last X recently updated by submission or Roku acceptance date, with the assumption it would be easy/quick for Roku to implement and would provide at least some out-of-channel information that a channel has changed.
I don’t see the point of such notification and it will also be an easy target for abuse. Somebody can bump the version every day (or week, as often as that registers) and submit the app as “new” thus staying featured perennially in the “Recently updated” list.
It goes cross with the idea of a “channel” too. A channel imho specializing in delivering a multimedia experience of some sort (be it films, music or a game). If it changes its contents radially, that would be another channel, so publish it separately. If it aggregates say multiple games, get a regular schedule for publishing said new sub-game (once a week or month) and your users will come for it. You can notify your users “in situ” (when the channel is started, the idea by TheEndless) or out-of-band by any means you made the users opt-in to be bugged about updates (email etc when registering on your site).
And i personally will be unhappy if my Roku start showing some blinking or jumping or highlighting of some channel icons because it has to download new versions of them. Part of the elegance of Roku player is that it behaves like a home appliance and “simply works” (unlike say a Sony Blu-ray player that will jump on me every time i turn it on “i found new update! new firmware, i want you to update me mom, can we do that please please please!”
“EnTerr” wrote:
I don’t see the point of such notification and it will also be an easy target for abuse. Somebody can bump the version every day (or week, as often as that registers) and submit the app as “new” thus staying featured perennially in the “Recently updated” list.
Public channels and their updates have to be approved by Roku, so I don’t think there’s a danger of someone abusing the update process.
I think there’s great utility in a row in the channel store that indicates what channels have been recently updated. We’re not talking about flashing lights and sirens, just another row next to the “New” row. There may be a channel I tried out awhile back, but decided for whatever reason wasn’t quite useful enough to clutter my channel list. Or maybe a game that I completed and uninstalled. If I have no way of knowing it’s been updated, then I may be missing out on some exciting new features and/or new levels. In-channel notification is only useful for channels I already have installed and regularly use, which I’ll automatically get the updates for anyway.
“EnTerr” wrote:
I don’t see the point of such notification and it will also be an easy target for abuse. Somebody can bump the version every day (or week, as often as that registers) and submit the app as “new” thus staying featured perennially in the “Recently updated” list.
Public channels and their updates have to be approved by Roku, so I don’t think there’s a danger of someone abusing the update process.
So Roku will have to define an objective criteria of what makes an app “new”, which is impossible. Does change of the icon or font constitute new? Reformatting of the source? Adding a new content inside (which you may or not do by updating your feed but still looks like “updated channel” to the users)?
And since there could not be objective criteria, it will be subjective. There will be undue pressure to push channel “renovations” just to be featured in this way. Roku will have to hire people to review and try to adjudicate if channel is “new-worthy” or not. Judgement will cause bad blood between Roku and some developers, because as i said, there is no objective way for all sides to see the same.
And i still fail to see how an update to a channel makes it noteworthy. Most updates are not worthy of attention, the need of some we in fact don’t want to point out. Say there were silly misspellings in some of my text labels and I fixed them - should I tout that? Don’t want people to abandon your app - DIRFT (Do It Right the First Time)
And speaking of Roku judging what is worthy and what not… oh wait, they DO have that already, it is called “Featured” category. Someone thinks they’ve made major upgrade to a channel that changes the world - eh, just email Roku and persuade them to feature you.
“EnTerr” wrote:
I don’t see the point of such notification and it will also be an easy target for abuse. Somebody can bump the version every day (or week, as often as that registers) and submit the app as “new” thus staying featured perennially in the “Recently updated” list.
Public channels and their updates have to be approved by Roku, so I don’t think there’s a danger of someone abusing the update process.
So Roku will have to define an objective criteria of what makes an app “new”, which is impossible. Does change of the icon or font constitute new? Reformatting of the source? Adding a new content inside (which you may or not do by updating your feed but still looks like “updated channel” to the users)?
And since there could not be objective criteria, it will be subjective. There will be undue pressure to push channel “renovations” just to be featured in this way. Roku will have to hire people to review and try to adjudicate if channel is “new-worthy” or not. Judgement will cause bad blood between Roku and some developers, because as i said, there is no objective way for all sides to see the same.
And i still fail to see how an update to a channel makes it noteworthy. Most updates are not worthy of attention, the need of some we in fact don’t want to point out. Say there were silly misspellings in some of my text labels and I fixed them - should I tout that? Don’t want people to abandon your app - DRIFT (Do It Right the First Time)
And speaking of Roku judging what is worthy and what not… oh wait, they DO have that already, it is called “Featured” category. Someone thinks they’ve made major upgrade to a channel that changes the world - eh, just email Roku and persuade them to feature you.
I don’t think a Recently Updated category would promote any channel; I’m still able to find all of the available channels. And if I were subscribed to a channel that, abusively, seemed to show up in that category all the time, I would start to ignore it and probably get annoyed with the developer.
“EnTerr” wrote:
DRIFT (Do It Right the First Time)
I think that would be DIRFT, which I think might be the number between 5 and 6 (that may be an obscure reference, unless you’re a parent)…
And I think it’d be pretty easy for Roku to objectively state that you’re only allowed one update per x many days, unless it’s a critical bug fix. And again, we’re not talking about being featured.. we’re talking about having some indication that the channel has been updated.. for the end user’s benefit, not the developer’s. If a developer starts abusing that, I think it’d be pretty obvious, and something Roku could prevent.
I guess I just don’t understand your opposition to it. You seem to be convinced that such a feature would be abused, and are focusing on that rather than the utility. Heck, they could even put the row at the very bottom of the channel store for all I care. I’d just like the ability to easily check to see what channels have been recently updated.
So Roku will have to define an objective criteria of what makes an app “new”, which is impossible. Does change of the icon or font constitute new? Reformatting of the source? Adding a new content inside (which you may or not do by updating your feed but still looks like “updated channel” to the users)?
And since there could not be objective criteria, it will be subjective. There will be undue pressure to push channel “renovations” just to be featured in this way. Roku will have to hire people to review and try to adjudicate if channel is “new-worthy” or not. Judgement will cause bad blood between Roku and some developers, because as i said, there is no objective way for all sides to see the same.
I think it’s a bit simpler than that. If the app has been updated, it goes in the recently updated list, sorted by the release date of that version. Since Roku has to review these all anyways, if someone is constantly on the list for small changes, Roku will probably get annoying, and find a way to make their annoyance known. That could be as simple as delaying review and publication of the channel for a week or two, to dissuade too-frequent updates and reduce load on Roku reviewing process.
This might need to change or be removed at a later date if the number of updated channels grows too large, but I don’t think that’s a major concern currently.
“kbenson” wrote:
I think it’s a bit simpler than that. If the app has been updated, it goes in the recently updated list, sorted by the release date of that version. Since Roku has to review these all anyways, if someone is constantly on the list for small changes, Roku will probably get annoying, and find a way to make their annoyance known. That could be as simple as delaying review and publication of the channel for a week or two, to dissuade too-frequent updates and reduce load on Roku reviewing process. This might need to change or be removed at a later date if the number of updated channels grows too large, but I don’t think that’s a major concern currently.
We heard what is the use to “you”, the developer - but what is the use of such category (“newified”) to “me”, the end user?
The argument was that this was supposed to inform users that already have the channel it has been updated. Ok, so there are a bit under 100 public channels there and as a user I have 10-20 channels installed, more than half of which private. So only the public, only ~10/100 = 10% of the channels that be listed under “Freshly updated” are of relevance to a particular user and considering only 4 are show on screen at a time, one will have intentionally to scroll screens to find relevant to them channel, that defeats the purpose.
And if your channel is private, you are totally out of luck - it will never show up in that section.
“kbenson” wrote:
I think it’s a bit simpler than that. If the app has been updated, it goes in the recently updated list, sorted by the release date of that version. Since Roku has to review these all anyways, if someone is constantly on the list for small changes, Roku will probably get annoying, and find a way to make their annoyance known. That could be as simple as delaying review and publication of the channel for a week or two, to dissuade too-frequent updates and reduce load on Roku reviewing process. This might need to change or be removed at a later date if the number of updated channels grows too large, but I don’t think that’s a major concern currently.
We heard what is the use to “you”, the developer - but what is the use of such category (“newified”) to “me”, the end user?
The argument was that this was supposed to inform users that already have the channel it has been updated. Ok, so there are a bit under 100 public channels there and as a user I have 10-20 channels installed, more than half of which private. So ~10/100 = 90% of the channels that be listed under “Freshly updated” are of no relevance to me, I don’t watch them anyway.
And if your channel is private, you are totally out of luck - it will never show up in that section.
So how is this useful to the viewers?!Let’s look at this problem from a different angle. What if, instead of a ‘recently updated’ category, the categories that exist now(including ‘my channels’) could be sorted. Say the sort options could be by: release date (including updates), # of installations, star rating, alphabetical, or ‘featured’(Roku’s subjective, but arguably valuable, opinion).
As a user, I find those kind of options very valuable in many other contexts, for instance, app stores and file management.
“EnTerr” wrote:
The argument was that this was supposed to inform users that already have the channel it has been updated. Ok, so there are a bit under 100 public channels there and as a user I have 10-20 channels installed, more than half of which private. So only the public, only ~10/100 = 10% of the channels that be listed under “Freshly updated” are of relevance to a particular user and considering only 4 are show on screen at a time, one will have intentionally to scroll screens to find relevant to them channel, that defeats the purpose.
That was not my argument at all. In fact, my argument was just the opposite. In-channel notification work fine for channels the user already has installed. You actually, inadvertently, touched on exactly why this is useful with the current system. With limited resources, user’s are fairly regularly required to trim down the number of channels they have installed. Often times, a channel may be cut because it’s not quite useful enough, yet. With a recently updated list in the channel store, I could quickly and easily identify when one of those channels that didn’t quite make the cut has been updated, and may actually be worthy of a spot in my channel lineup again. There is much more utility in such a feature for the end user than for the developer.
And if your channel is private, you are totally out of luck - it will never show up in that section.
Sure it can! The installed channels list shows channels you’ve installed that are private. Why couldn’t the newly updated list also show the private channels that are updated that you have installed?
So how is this useful to the viewers?!
I think it’s evident, but even if you don’t buy that argument, how about this: Anything Roku does to make the developers job easier makes people developers want to target the platform more. That means more channels, and hopefully better quality channels. That’s a gain for users. I’m not proposing anything radical, just a small part of the channel store that notes what’s updated recently (well, TheEndless proposed it, but it’s definitely in the direction I was looking). There are ZERO negative aspects to that for users in my opinion, and it seems like it would be easy to implement.
“TheEndless” wrote:
That was not my argument at all. In fact, my argument was just the opposite. In-channel notification work fine for channels the user already has installed. You actually, inadvertently, touched on exactly why this is useful with the current system. With limited resources, user’s are fairly regularly required to trim down the number of channels they have installed. Often times, a channel may be cut because it’s not quite useful enough, yet. With a recently updated list in the channel store, I could quickly and easily identify when one of those channels that didn’t quite make the cut has been updated, and may actually be worthy of a spot in my channel lineup again. There is much more utility in such a feature for the end user than for the developer.
Interesting but this contradicts what kbenson has in mind (see his reply).
So do you have in mind something like “Why don’t you watch again” category, consisting of channels that
a) you tried and deleted from lineup AND
b) have been updated recently AND
c) you did not hate it (gave rating>2 or did not rate)
The rudimentary (c) tries to cater to personal preferences in the way Tivo learns your taste.
If the Roku channel lineup grows up substantially, I imagine a learning component like Tivo’s or Netflix like/don’t like will be in order to give suggestions.
“EnTerr” wrote:
And if your channel is private, you are totally out of luck - it will never show up in that section.
Sure it can! The installed channels list shows channels you’ve installed that are private. Why couldn’t the newly updated list also show the private channels that are updated that you have installed?
Ah, I see your point. But wouldn’t that lead to two lineups of “My Channels” next to each other (it won’t be any better if they are away from each other):
one in the order the viewer likes them (the one currently presented, which they can re-order manually to taste)
and one in the order we developers (or at least kbenson) want him/her too see them, by last update timestamp
That will weird me out. I mean, from usability point of view, same things reordered on the same screen, eeeeh…
